Topic > Eliminating differences: Socrates and Euthyphro

Socrates found Euthyphro in the agora and after a very short report he launched directly into asking the question of what virtue is; in Euthyphro's case the specific virtue under discussion is piety. Socrates was able to look at his subjects, including Euthyphro, in such a critical light that it dates back to his statement that "I do not think I know what I do not know" (Apology 21d). This statement shows Socrates' recognition that he does not know everything and provides a theory as to why he always seeks to learn from his interlocutors. He tends to avoid statements and instead prefers an investigation into the position of the interlocutor, which helps him discover that person. He usually lets the character of his interlocutor and his willingness (or lack) to learn direct the discussion. However, in the end, Socrates tends to teach his interlocutors more than they teach him. Socrates seems to be well aware of the roles he plays. He was placed in Athens for a reason and was able to awaken everyone around him (Apologia 30e). Say no to plagiarism. Get a tailor-made essay on "Why Violent Video Games Shouldn't Be Banned"? Get an Original Essay Euthyphro provides a perfect example of Socrates' willingness to learn from his interlocutor and his ability to teach the interlocutor in the process. In this particular dialogue Euthyphro is the interlocutor. He is very orthodox and stubborn when it comes to his religious beliefs. Euthyphro believes himself to be “superior to most men” when it comes to matters of piety (Euthyphro 5a). He believes that no matter who the victim of a crime is (Euthyphro 4b), the perpetrator should be prosecuted regardless. Euthyphro believes that if someone disagrees with this position, "his ideas about the divine attitude towards piety and impiety are wrong" (Euthyphro 4e). This is what gives Socrates the motivation to delve into the question of piety. He wants to show that someone like Euthyphro, who thinks he knows what piety is, actually has no idea what it is; there are so many subtleties and implications surrounding the word that Euthyphro completely overlooks. It is with this statement that Socrates' commitment to reasoned argument begins to emerge. This commitment is at a certain point stated directly by Socrates: “I am the type of man who within me listens to nothing other than the argument which upon reflection seems to me to be the best” (Crito 46b). Socrates wants to ensure that his interlocutors fully understand the definitions they are presenting and how they relate to virtue, as they attempt to logically argue their point. The ability to argue one's point is something that most of Socrates' interlocutors initially struggle with, and it is definitely evident in the case of Euthyphro as he tries to define piety. Euthyphro's initial statement about piety is that what he is currently doing, persecuting his father for murder, is pious (Euthyphro 6d). Socrates is able to very quickly dismiss this definition of piety on the grounds that it is only a very specific example of piety and fails to let anyone know what piety is on a fundamental level, essentially what makes pious things pious. As is Socrates' way, he tells Euthyphro to try again. In his second definition, Euthyphro states that pious is what pleases the gods, and impious is what is not (Euthyphro 7a). This definition is initially more pleasant due to its more general nature. However, the gods disagree, so this definition is incorrect since an action cannot be both pious and impious at the same time. At this point it should be clear that Socrates is using hisusual method of debate, known as Socrates (or elenchus method). He is engaged in a conversation with Euthyphro which consists of Socrates asking Euthyphro many questions in an attempt to stimulate critical thinking and illuminate the ideas at hand. Socrates' method is that of hypothesis elimination, using a very systematic method, Socrates constantly identifies hypotheses that present inconsistencies and pushes Euthyphro to realize the nature of these inconsistencies and to find new definitions; since it would not be logical to hold a belief that makes no sense. Elenchus has 4 steps; which can be examined using Euthyphro's second definition of piety. First, Euthyphro states the thesis that “what is dear to the gods is pious, what is not is impious” (Euthyphro 7a). Socrates later makes Euthyphro accept additional premises that include that "the gods are in a state of discord" (Euthyphro 7b). Socrates then went on to demonstrate that this further premise contradicts Euthyphro's original thesis. Finally, Socrates claims that Euthyphro's thesis is wrong based on the additional premises. Socrates follows this method quite closely for every definition of piety that Euthyphro offers for examination. Most of Plato's other dialogues involving Socrates and his interlocutors also use this method of inquiry. From here Euthyphro moves on to his third definition of piety: "pious is what all the gods love, and the opposite, what all the gods hate, is impious". This introduces Euthyphro's dilemma, still widely debated today: "The pious is loved by the gods because he is pious, or he is pious because he is loved by the gods” (Euthyphro 10a). Socrates goes on to further emphasize this point: “But if the beloved of God and the pious were the same, my dear Euthyphro, then if the pious were loved because he is pious, the beloved of God would also be loved because he was loved from God; and if the one loved by God were loved by God because he was loved by the gods, then the pious would also be pious because he was loved by the gods” (Euthyphro 10e – 11a). As now established as Socrates he is committed to making a logical argument and goes to great lengths to demonstrate how this definition is a logical fallacy. The argument could potentially go on in circles forever and is therefore known as circular reasoning. Socrates continues the discussion as it is clear that neither of them yet has an adequate definition of piety. In reality, it is Socrates who proposes the next definition of pity, as pity is a type of justice. He quickly rejects his own definition arguing that it is too broad (Euthyphro 12d). From here Euthyphro gives yet another definition of piety i.e. that piety is “the care of the gods” (Euthyphro 13b). Once again, Socrates uses Elenchus to show Euthyphro that his definition is inadequate. Euthyphro then provides a final definition of piety which Socrates summarizes in the statement “that piety would be a knowledge of how to give to, and beg of, the gods” (Euthyphro 14d). Euthyphro points out that Socrates is following very well what he has to say and Socrates he responds that he only desires Euthyphro's wisdom (Euthyphro 14d) which goes back to the initial assessment that Socrates always seeks to learn from his interlocutors However, after a little more discussion, Euthyphro's final definition ends up, once again,. to boil down to what pleases the gods, making it even more obvious that Euthyphro never really thought about piety, he states that we must start over in the examination of piety (Euthyphro 15c). Socrates does not want to give up before he has found an adequate definition of piety. Instead, Euthyphro is anxious to leave and not think about the matter anymore. Euthyphro is.